Okay, ENOUGH. Multiple times, I have been stopped from commenting in any way on those threads which are promoting this Wear Pants to Church day.
But here, on this, I feel empowered to speak.
If people want to wear pants to Church, if they want to co-opt the sacrament meeting for their own agenda, that is their prerogative. So long as they are not interfering with you actually partaking and blessing the sacrament, LET THEM WEAR PANTS. It is a total non-issue.
If you consider yourself a disciple of Christ, if you want to be faithful and exhibit His presence here on earth, if you want His light to shine from your countenance, please, PLEASE stop attacking the people of this movement!
Of course it isn't about pants. Of course the entire movement is a subtle trap, with no winners, only victims. Please don't add to it. Please let it go. It isn't important. It doesn't matter.
What does matter is you allowing your fear, discomfort, anger at the people of this movement to keep you from recognizing them as your Sisters and Brothers. I beg you, please pray for the Spirit to guide you. Please let Him into your hearts on this matter.
Because what you're doing isn't helping. It's only buying in to the Adversary's plan with all this. I can't beg you enough to cease from contention.
Read 3 Nephi 11 and D&C 10. Ponder them, amend your behavior after the pattern they teach. This is your opportunity to invite the Spirit and show forth the Love of Christ. Don't let it pass.
President Uchtdorf's "STOP IT" conference talk. (http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-merciful-obtain-mercy) might be helpful as well.
ReplyDeleteYes! Thank you!
DeleteWe have no corresponding prerogative to express our contrary views?
ReplyDeleteIn other words, we get hit the "tolerance stick" whether we like it or not?
I suppose it depends on what your contrary view is. Since (from what I've read http://www.kpvi.com/content/news/local/story/Facebook-Group-Encourages-LDS-Women-to-Wear-Pants/dzlj4LMORUaW4jdwu5y30w.cspx) this "wear pants to church" thing has nothing to do with the social more of wearing pants, or a white shirt and tie, but is an active protest about women not having the Priesthood.
DeleteWhy not? We are the ones who profess Christ. The Book of Mormon is chock-full of the righteous reaction to this kind of dissension.
ReplyDeleteRight, and Jesus didn't mince words when the occasion required. Even used a whip on one occasion, as I recall.
ReplyDeleteOf course, that's His prerogative and I'm not calling for that OF COURSE.
However, some people interpret loving acceptance as total capitulation to their fantasies.
I have no problem with folks showing up at church in whatever clothing they choose. So be it.
However, I'm still allowed to express my opinions and still allowed to think that their transmogrification of sacrament meeting into a grass roots agitation is ugly and base.
I find that most people who use that one example of Christ's judgment to harshly judge others are missing the point.
ReplyDeleteOf course you are free to express your opinions. And if you are doing it hand-in-hand with the Spirit, it is even a good idea.
But I do not believe that the Spirit is behind the vitriol which is being spewed out against these people. Contention is not of God. Period.
Vitriol? What exactly are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteI find that people don't like being contradicted, and so they use that term "vitriol" pretty loosely to give them cover. We should love people like Christ loved them. Did Christ ever correct a soul? Did he ever point folks away from mistakes? Did he ever speak the truth boldly whether it was politically correct to the Pharisees or Sadducees or not?
It's flippant to call on people to be like Christ when most of us are, in fact, trying to do so.
You're saying that online I'm not allowed to call out tomfoolery when I see it? Of course I wouldn't say anything to anyone while at church, but online I am free to point out peoples' foibles in the hopes that people can avoid making silly mistakes. It can even be part of wisdom to point out mistakes publicly and openly.
If you feel right before God in how you have been responding, then by all means do it. This is a call to repentance. Repentance is between you and God, not you and me.
ReplyDeleteI have written what I have because I felt moved by the Spirit to do so. I'm most definitely not telling you to "not call out tomfoolery when [you] see it." I'm asking people not to engage in contention, which is active and prevalent in many places right now. I'm asking them to invite the Spirit into their hearts before they engage. I'm pleading with them to stop reacting out of anger or fear.
It would "tomfoolish" of me to engage in contention with you, when I am preaching against it, so I hope you'll understand when I now refuse to do so.
Thank you for being able to discuss it with me. I'm sure you were initially worried when I chimed in on your thread. ;)
ReplyDeleteTo the contrary, I'm far too present-minded to keep track of who has offended me in the past. ;)
DeleteSR...thanks for your thoughts! Like I said privately, we need to remember 3 Nephi 11: 29 and to not stir up contention one with another. I hope that these sisters that choose to wear pants realize that they might be hurting other's feelings with their actions. That's not what we strive for at our meetings. Our meetings are the most important 3 hours of our lives. Let's make the most of our Sundays, and leave the world at the door of the chapel. If someone has a real problem, then seek the council of the bishop or the RSP. Pray, fast, read the scriptures and know that the Lord loves us all. And also remember what Alma teaches us in Alma 7: 11, that Christ took upon himself our pains and sufferings as well as our sins, so that he might be able to fully succcor us. If we are willing to let him, he will. That goes for the sisters who feel they are some how unequal in the LDS Church. Anyway....I can't comment anymore on this. Life is moving today and for some reason my kids think they want some food! :)
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteThe problem is not that people are going to wear pants. The problem is what this movement stands for. It is something of an affront to the revealed structure and leadership of the Church.
ReplyDeleteOf course it is. But whose purpose does increasing the serve? Not ours, not God's.
DeleteMy thoughts are mixed.
ReplyDelete1) There's worse things they could do than wear pants in church.
2) If some women wear pants, then we need some men in kilts!
3) Wasn't there something in the Book of Mormon about Amlicites marking themselves with red in their foreheads? I suppose these women are going to mark themselves with pants.
Thank you for your comments. I think you hit the spot dead on. It is unfortunate that some among us feel the need to "demonstrate" in one of our church meetings for whatever reason is behind their little rebellion. But is at least equally unfortunate that others among us feel the need to angrily react to their rebellion. I haven't read anything in the Book of Mormon expounding on women wearing dresses to church, or even not passing the sacrament, (I'm not suggesting they should, just making a point!), but there are hundreds of explicit teachings commanding us not to judge one another, not to contend with one another, to love one another, to correct with patience, long suffering, kindness, gentleness, and to have perfect love. There are scriptures that teach us to keep the ordinances pure and to reverence the emblems of the sacrament, and even some talks about not doing things to distract from the sacrament ordinance. But the weight of the teachings about reverence and not distracting from the ordinance, are very light compared to the overwhelming importance of being kind, gentle, patient, long-suffering, of not judging, of forgiving and just completely loving one another!
ReplyDeleteIt is not our place to correct one another. Open forums, such as this are great places to express opinions about practices and philosophies and such, but what we say still has effects on real people. If you're looking for scriptural examples of people being called to repentance, there are many, but there is one important difference between those accounts and what happens on forums and blogs. The difference is that the scriptural accounts are examples of church leaders, especially the Savior himself, calling people to repent.
We are not in a position to call each other to repent; that is entirely inappropriate, except is cases, usually where we are one-on-one with a person, and we are moved upon by the Holy Ghost, and we feel this humble, kind, loving regard for the person to whom we are speaking, and we pass along some personal spiritual wisdom as directed by the Comforter through us. All other times, as with all the accounts I can think of in the scriptures, it has been a church leader, and at this time should still be a church leader who calls someone (or a group of people) to repentance. They have the mantle, they have the responsibility, and they have the inspiration.
Church leaders are fallible just like the rest of us, but they have the obligation to protect the church; it is THEIR responsibility to take action if needed. And if they act when they shouldn't, or if they don't act when they should, either way it is not our place to "fix" things. It IS our responsibility to sustain them, pray for them and follow their counsel. We have an explicit commandment to treat one another with patience, long-suffering, kindness, gentleness, meekness and with love unfeigned. We would do well to work on those attributes until we have them perfected. Then we'll be better prepared to "defend" the church if we are placed in a position where it is required of us.
And I personally believe that if we all treated one another that way, there would be much less to defend against!
Thank you for your comment.
DeleteI do think that, when moved upon by the Spirit, we are completely authorized to call people to repentance. Most prophets in scripture were not spiritual leaders in their local church. And we have all been called to be prophets, which is to cry repentance to the people.
Even further, as members we have covenanted to stand as witnesses of Christ, and to proclaim His gospel. What is that, other than calling others to repentance?
The key is to do so 1) when moved upon by the Spirit, and 2) through persuasion, patience, kindness, long-suffering, etc.
(continued)
ReplyDeleteThis church does NOT need to worry about attacks from the outside. It may be weakened, as it has throughout history, by the pride of the members, but not from attacks from individuals or groups who disagree with its teachings. What hurts the church the most is when we, the body of the church, fail to live as we are instructed so eloquently at the end of D&C 121.
Our real opportunity is to seek to be true to the light of Christ ourselves. Then, if we find another person who is struggling with gospel principles, we have an opportunity to help another person be healed by the atonement as we are seeking to be healed by the Savior ourselves! We will be more likely able to come to their rescue and let the Lord heal whatever wounds have lead them to rebel in the first place, if we have made it a part of our nature to be patient, kind, etc. That is the real mission of the church. And when we get caught up in the "strifes" and rebellions and trying to "defend" the church, we lose sight of the opportunities to heal and be healed.
I'm not saying that all discussion and difference of opinion is getting caught up in defending the church, because it is helpful to articulate the beautiful principles of the gospel of the Savior, and how they are presented to us through the practices of the church; but if we lose sight of the beauty and peace and love embodied in the Savior's teachings, and stop being kind, or we take upon ourselves the role is given to the leaders of the church to "protect" the church, then I believe we've left the core principles and we're no better than those we are contending with.
Whew! That was long. Still, thanks for the post!
Thank you for this post, SR.
ReplyDeleteThe most ironic aspect of this whole brewhaha is that the LDS Church itself has not outlawed women wearing pants to church, so the extreme reactions against this only by many members make the LDS Church look more extreme than the global leadership actually is. I have absolutely no problem with women wearing pants to church, and, even though I do have a problem with the incorrect message this organized protest is sending about the leadership in SLC, I have a bigger problem with the horrible responses I have seen from those who are attacking the organizers.
Exactly. Two wrongs do not make a right. Especially when the entire purpose of the first wrong was to incite the second. We are not excused from walking straight into such a blatant trap of the Adversary.
DeleteVery well done SilverRain!
ReplyDeleteI don't believe the entire purpose of the pants day was wrong. It came from a place of deep hurt for many of the women participating. To assume that pant wearing women are demanding the priesthood, or hate church leaders is to assume you know their hearts. When people come to church today in pants or dresses or whatever they come to feel the healing power of the atonement, and to feel like there will be those who will strengthen their feeble knees and lift up their hands that hang down. Let us not disappoint the Savior when we go to church. He will be there anxious to heal hearts. He needs our hands and our humility to have that happen. God bless us all to find unity. I think of Zachaeus climbing the tree to see the Savior pass by. He was a tax collecter, he had cheated people, and Christ called him down and said today I am coming to your house. The son of man has come to save that which was lost. Today salvation comes to your house. Some of our brothers and sisters are hoping that today their fellow saints will say "the son of man has come to save that which was lost" Aren't we all lost. Let us bring the words of salvation to his house today and quit judging or assuming we know anyones pain or heart.
ReplyDeleteI do think it was wrong. Lashing out in pain is understandable, but not righteous.
DeleteI have also hurt, deeply, and been hurt. But I have also been fortunate enough to understand that others shouldn't have to own my pain. It is mine. What better way to come to understand the Savior, than to be charitable to those who cause us pain?
Unity is indeed the message of the Spirit, but it is to find the power of unity in ourselves, not to force it on others. Sadly, the effect of this protest will be the opposite of the declared one: it will do more to alienate those who do not wish to rebel against the church from supporting those in pain, rather than move them to compassion.
This has now made wearing pants a symbol of feminist rebellion, rather than a clothing choice. By their very actions, they have made true what they previously believed to be true. They have drawn the lines in the sand far more thoroughly than anyone before them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And falling into that trap deserves pity. I don't suppose to know their motivations, beyond the motivations I myself have felt. But I can clearly see the hand of the Adversary in this action, and regret that so many have allowed themselves to become his pawn.
Amen, God clothed Adam and Eve alike. He didn't make pants and a dress. The outside is of no importance.
ReplyDelete